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Casey is a father, a husband, a coach, a friend, a speaker, and a business leader who is the same person in and out of work. Casey works to empower people to achieve more than they think they are capable. Giving back is a huge part of his life. He loves changing perception, and thoroughly enjoys opportunities to educate customers – showing them how he can truly help them achieve their business goals.
His book titled, “Win The Relationship; Not the Deal” came out in January 2020 and you can listen to his podcast for fathers, which is called The QB Dad Cast. Follow his podcast on Twitter.

Show Notes & Transcript:

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Automated Transcript

Editor’s Note: We provide a transcript of each episode to make it easy to search and read. Since robots are not ready to take over the world yet, the artificial intelligence isn’t perfect. There may be some typos in the automated transcript.

Casey (00:04):
I was the next to bat, I was like, I’m not doing this. I was too scared. I faked a stomach ache. Yeah. Told my coach I don’t feel good because I didn’t want to face up too scared. And I, I went and told my mom afterwards and she says, you did what? And she called my coach, my coach. At 10 years old I had to talk, I had to openly tell my teammates, how I let them down.

Vincent (00:30):
From Vyten career coaching. It’s How I Got Here. A show about business leaders, their resilience, and the stories behind their career moves. I’m Vincent Phamvan, and I’ve interviewed thousands of job candidates over the years in both recruiting and as a former corporate executive. Now I’m on a mission to help you take the next step in your career. A corporate job opening attracts an average of 250 resumes and just one person is going to get hired. It wasn’t all that long ago that I was nervous and frustrated by my job search, but it doesn’t have to be this way. You can navigate your career with confidence, spend everyday learning and drive to better yourself. You can be excited about the future.

Vincent (01:10):
In today’s episode, we welcome back Casey Jacox who’s a published author, writer, speaker, and business leader. And he’s going to be talking about his career journey, but this is part 2. If you haven’t listened to part 1 of this episode yet, go back into our podcast feed and listen to part 1 before continuing on with this episode.

Casey Reflects on His Past Unsuccessful Interviews

Casey (01:31):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s a, that’s a great point. I mean, I would love to go back and watch those nine interviews. Like I obviously did something, well, there was, there was left. Why, he’s like a bad rash that won’t go away. But I always say I did something right. I like to think it was maybe being witty or creative or unique, but, I just had, you have to make it fun, make that journey fun to how, how am I? Cause like all those skills, whether, whether you get into sales or not, for me, those adversity moments propelled me to, to have to battle the life of cold calling or getting a customer on the phone or trying to be creative. I just made it into a game and you’re going to mess up.

Casey (02:17):
Every call is not going to be perfect. Even if you’re the most successful person in the world, you’re still going to have mistakes.

Casey Shares Why Practice and Sales are Important in a Job Interview

Vincent (02:24):
Yeah. And I think a parallel between sales and your job search is, you know, in sales, you have, you have accounts that you get really excited about prospects that you get really excited about. And then you have leads that are smaller deals or for one reason or another, you know, it’s not a call. It’s not a sales call that you get excited about. And in job searches, there’s the same there’s employers that you really want to work for. And there’s employers that, you know, if you were to, if you took the job that you’d be settling, the challenge is that if you don’t go through the process of practicing, just like you say, when the one that really matters, the one

Vincent (03:00):
That you really want comes, you might not be as well polished and well-practiced as you could have been.

Casey (03:08):
Yeah. It totally. And you have control over that.

Finding and Interviewing at Fast Growing Companies

Casey (03:11):
That’s what people need to realize. We have control over that. And you know, it’s just like, just like, you know, the Googles, the Amazons, the Microsofts, like all these companies, everybody knows, sure. Go work there. But why not? If you’re not getting traction there, the small to mid cap companies, like one of those small mid-cap companies is going to turn into the next large company one day. Yeah. Right. And so like, if you’re doing what everyone else is doing, sometimes you don’t get the results you want to do. So like challenge yourself to be creative. Like again, this goes back to like being vulnerable enough to talk to your friends, your family, like I’m struggling. I’m and then let’s, let’s talk through it. Let’s talk about like maybe two things that are working well for you and maybe two things you might want to try doing differently and be open to that coaching. Because I think, yeah, some of the best customers I had before I started working with some of the larger enterprises, there are things that no one even heard of.

Vincent (04:06):
I think that’s a great point in terms of broadening your options. You might’ve had this path that you thought you were going to be on and as things change, you know, your point there in terms of these fast-growing companies do become the next wave of larger companies. There’s two resources I can think of off the top of my head. Deloitte has a, uh, Deloitte fast 500 list. That’s a 500 fastest growing technology companies. And the other one is the Inc 5,000, which nearly everybody has, has heard of being 5,000, but that could be a strategy for, uh, working out one of those companies that will become the next large design, super desirable employer and actually getting in early there.

Casey (04:51):
Yeah. That’s a great advice, I have not heard of that, but I wrote that down and will check it out.

Vincent (04:53):
Out. Yeah, well, uh, it’s a really, really great list. And uh, you know, it’s listing out the companies that on a couple of different metrics are going to be your, your rocket ships right now. Um, many people get, they get frustrated by the networking. I want to talk a little bit more about you made a, you alluded to earlier the depositing into a bank, you know, it’s really uncomfortable to go out networking because, uh, you know, nobody ever wants to feel like they’re being sold to, nobody wants to ever feel like, you know, the only reason that Casey wants to meet with me is because Casey wants to get an introduction to a recruiter or hiring manager, whoever. So if you’re on the other side of that, you know, how do you really focus on building that relationship and getting to the point where that you can make that ask?

How to Successfully Network and What to Say When Networking

Casey (05:42):
I think, I think networking’s all about the, it’s not about you. It’s about them. Just like selling is not about you. It’s about them. It’s not, it’s always about someone else. And so everything you do, your conversation, your questions, it’s showing that genuine, authentic interest in someone else because I’ve yet to find somebody in my 44 years of life, doesn’t like talking about themselves or something they’re passionate about. So the challenge is finding something there. And even if you’re at like a networking, but you don’t know nobody, you got, you have something, you got a name tag and a company. So, uh, either you have two choices, either sit in the corner and be the kid that never gets to dance or you’re like, I’m coming to the dance. I don’t have to tell my parents, I didn’t dance at any girls tonight, dad. So go out and just challenge yourself to ask questions about them.

Casey (06:27):
Ask about anything like, Hey, tell me about you. Tell me about your day. I like the name, that’s the shirt. Just anything to start a conversation. And what happens when you ask one, two, three questions about them. And again, you have to practice these things. The more you do that, the more conversation is going to flow. Conversations are going to start happening and then use curiosity. And curiosity is sometimes the best skillset in networking because, um, that maybe everyone’s not blessed with that skill set, but if you can practice to get better at it, you’ll find that, uh, more people will want to help you. Um, because that’s you’re right. I mean, if you go into networking or asking for things and it’s all about what you want, people are gonna feel it and smell it immediately. Um, and as I look back and, and we talked about this before we started recording, you know, I can think of as, as my business grew, as my accounts grew, as my, as they grew across United States, I had to start just giving relationships away to other salespeople.

Casey (07:28):
And some people might say, well, that’s dumb. You’re giving away money. I’m like, that’s one way short-term. But to me, I’m helping the customer. I’m helping another rep. I’m sending elevator back down to help them, which then I’m teaching them. They’re going to do that to someone else when they get later in their career. And it, it became just more about, um, the, the broader picture of what I was trying to accomplish, which would always send it back to me. I would always come back and forth. Um, so I don’t, that helps answer questions, question some things that came up

How to Standout in a Job Interview by Asking Great Questions

Vincent (07:55):
Mind as you’re asking questions. Other people you gave a really tactical piece of advice earlier in terms of asking open-ended questions. Like how do you get to the root of a really meaningful conversation? What I think about when I think about like those networking events is, Hey, how are you doing? Yeah, I’m doing well. How’s your family doing? Yeah. Good. How do you, I mean, get intoncause the level two question is like, Hey Casey, you know, uh, I hear you like to golf, like tell me about, you know, how your swing is doing. Like your level three questions are really where like you end up actually knowing a person as a person.

Casey (08:33):
I think sometimes the vulnerability piece comes like, so for example, as you said, the golf thing, I’d say, Hey, well, Vincent, I know about you man, but I’ve been struggling with the shanks recently. Tell me about if you had, tell me about that. Have you ever had to describe your, your most embarrassing moment on a golf course?

Vincent (08:47):
Yeah, so mine, I actually, I got a fracture in my hand and I went to my doctor, my primary care physician and uh, he just said, take a Tylenol. And a week later I took, I took a few Tylenol and, uh, didn’t, didn’t help went to an orthopedic surgeon and the orthopedic surgeon before I even mentioned that I golfed, he said, do you golf? And he said, how’d, you know that he goes, because I, because the exact place where you got a stress fracture, I know exactly what happened. You swung, you hit a tree root, all of the impact went straight into your hand. And now you have a hairline fracture in your hand. And it was really funny because, uh, he wasn’t even there. And yet he knows my most embarrassing moment on a golf course from just seeing like an MRI. And x-ray did he,

Casey (09:38):
Did you ask him if he had that same experience?

Vincent (09:40):
No. He said that. Uh, and actually it’s actually, now that you’re asking this line of questioning, it’s, uh, uh, he made it abundantly clear to me that I wasn’t the only one that, that had ever happened to, and that there are many other people, his patients, uh, who had done the exact same thing that I had done, which, you know, to me, it just, you know, it’s super embarrassing. But, um, it also, I guess, just in that moment reinforced that I wasn’t alone. I’m not the only bathroom.

Casey (10:11):
Oh. I mean, everyone’s got crazy stories, but I mean, but think about like, I, I asked them it spawn you to respond and now I could keep going, but I’m not, this is your podcast, but I, in my mind how I’m trained, I just keep asking more questions. Yeah. Even when you think you got to stop asking questions, keep going, because it’s kinda like when you’re, when, when we’re five years old, what’s our favorite word as a five-year-old for your why. Right. And yet, um, so I used to try and train salespeople. I said, pretend you’re that five-year-old tell me more. Describe the impact of that. Explain why that’s important to you. Tell me how that, how will it benefit you if you, if you get that to accomplish it, tell me like, even like something simple. Now tell me how COVID impact you and your family.

Casey (10:54):
And just describe, describe it. Are you safe? You know, like there’s always the next, like your point level two level three. And I think sometimes getting confidence to ask those next level questions requires a little bit self debt uh, like make fun of yourself a little bit. I found kind of like when we talked earlier about being handy, you thought it was handy. I’m like, no, I could have lied to you and said, Oh yeah, fricking home Depot hires me as their spokesperson once a month. They love people like me cause I probably end up buying half the wrong things. I don’t know.

Vincent (11:23):
Yeah. And yeah, I love that. And I think that’s one of the skill sets that, uh, never split the difference by Chris Voss, uh, was a book that really helped me, uh, with that where like, I didn’t know what follow-up questions to ask people. And two of the tactics that he actually teaches are just repeat back the last couple of words that somebody said, and the other one is, uh, to just paraphrase what the other person said and just follow up with something like, well, it sounds like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, it could be. And what’s really interesting about that to your point is even if I’m way off, it allows you to be able to correct it. And I think that’s where my comment earlier, well, it sounds like that would have made you really handy and I was completely wrong there, but then it allowed you to open up and actually share and be a little bit more vulnerable and actually correcting, correcting that. Yeah,

The Importance of Following Up After a Business Meeting or Interview

Casey (12:21):
Totally. Well. And not only do I love that you said that like repeating, so one of the big things I love doing in my career was, um, so when I would leave with a customer, I would always send a recap email. So for example, Hey Vincent, thanks for your time. Learned a lot about your company day. You’ve got some really cool stuff going on here. I want to take a couple minutes just recap and we’re role playing this out loud. I want to recap what I heard. So please let me know if there’s anything I missed or I, or, or document incorrectly and I’d sent it to him. And I said, just, please let me know. Two things that I prove it proved. I listened and approved. I followed through and I took all those notes from the meeting I just created. Now I put that into my CRM, saves me some time and, um, it, it keeps a engaged. The customer is like, wow. Versus, wow, this person really cares and want to make sure that he, he heard me today because what the biggest gap and not to get too far off trackers, you know, th think about the time. I’ll just ask you thinking about the time we’re talking about last time you were talking to somebody, whether it’s on the phone or in person when they knew you knew they weren’t listening. And how did that make you feel?

Casey (13:28):
Yeah. Horrible.

How to be an Active Listener in a Job Interview

Casey (13:30):
Yeah. Right. The gift of listening is one of the most amazing gifts we can give a relationship or give people. So if you’re going to be typing in the background, when you’re talking to somebody, just get good clearance. Hey Benson, before we get, I’m just letting you might hear the keyboard in the background. It’s just, I’m taking notes of our conversation. Hope that’s okay. Again seems simple and like, well, that’s kind of weird. I I’d rather get ahead of the things that are, seems common sense that people aren’t thinking about, um, to not negatively impact relationship, I’m trying to establish.

Vincent (14:00):
Yeah. And right now, like more than ever, that’s actually really a great advice for during a job interview. You know, normally when you’re interviewing face to face, like everybody knows that, you know, you bring the it’s like the standard black padfolio that literally every person uses in an interview. And so if you’re sitting across the table, like the other person can tell that you’re taking notes, you’re obviously not just doodling. Um, but you know, on an interview over zoom where you and I are talking over zoom, like you have no idea whether I’m taking notes or whether I’m, you know, reading something else or doing a Google search on, on whatever, unrelated checking out my Facebook feed. So I love that in terms, I love that in terms of just asking for permission and, uh, making it apparent that you are really engaged in the conversation. Um,

Casey (14:48):
So I will also tell for our audience out there, I’m an old guy. I actually still have an old, an old school watch. Okay. Take your smartwatch off before you interview, take your smartwatch off frequent meeting because what you don’t realize, if people haven’t taught you, I’m gonna teach you today. If it buzzes, I go like that. And, and I just, if I do that, I just told Vincent that my time’s more important and I

Vincent (15:09):
It’s like, I gotta go hurry up. It’s such a simple mistake. Yeah. I agree. It’s, I mean, it’s a parent, but you know, whether it’s a smartwatch, whether it’s, you know, putting your phone in airplane mode, uh, and even, you know, the same thing holds true for a virtual interview as well. Um, and what’s, what’s tough now is like you get the notifications everywhere. So you also have to remember to turn off the notifications on your computer. But, uh, yeah, I absolutely love that. Like how do you get, so, you know, as you’re networking out, you’re either recant actually let’s talk about rekindling old relationships. Like if you were to, if you found yourself in a situation where you needed to reach out to somebody that you haven’t talked to in five years, in 10 years, maybe you are a close at one point. Like they, maybe they were even the person that sat in the decks in the desk next to you five years ago. But you just haven’t talked to them since like how you go let’s role play let’s role, play it. All right. Let’s do it.

How to Reconnect With Old Connections Using Cold Outreach

Casey (16:06):
Vincent man. It’s I am so embarrassed that five years have gone by and I have not followed up with you, like I wanted to, and I’m calling to apologize today and I’d love to schedule time with you to, just to, just to recheck. I want to hear about you and your career. I mean, I looked on LinkedIn you’ve dude, like 40, under 40 in Nashville. How the heck do you do that? That’s awesome. Tell me about it.

Vincent (16:28):
Yeah. I mean, when I think through, let me just break apart the things that I’ve heard making it. Okay. And just addressing the elephant in the room of who you haven’t talked to in five years, taking ownership over that and being a little bit vulnerable and just apologizing for it, even though to be honest, like in most instances, the apology isn’t even necessary there, then just making it okay. That you say, Hey, I’ve, I’ve seen on Instagram that you’ve started doing X, Y, and Z. That’s really neat. Um, or saying, you know, I pulled up your LinkedIn, I saw that you’ve now gone to these are these few places. Yeah. And the last one in there, uh, that you’re really feeding into is just something specific that you’ve noticed and getting the other person to talk about something that likely they would want to talk about.

Vincent (17:18):
And, you know, you said something earlier that really stood out, which is haven’t met too many people that would like that. Don’t like talking about themselves, like the reality of it in an ask when you’re trying to schedule a time with somebody else, like comments like Casey, your job, your last job. I mean, it’s incredible what you accomplish there. That must have been really challenging. I would love to hear about what you learned there in that last job, because the reality is everybody thinks their job is hard. I mean, I’ve, I was at one point I was a lifeguard. That was a really hard job. Um, every single one of my jobs, like I don’t think I’ve ever had a job that I would have said, wow, that job was a really walk in the park.

Casey and Vincent Share The Hardest Jobs They’ve Had

Casey (17:58):
What was the hardest job you ever had?

Vincent (18:00):
Uh, the lifeguard is pretty tough, uh, for, you know, physically actually at one point I had a job where I worked in a best buy store, loading, unloading trucks, although the lifeguard job did involve cleaning bathrooms and toilets and stuff. Both of those, uh, you know, both of those are tough and, and what’s interesting is throughout your career, you look at that and you go, yeah, I want to get into something where I’m working in an office. And then as soon as you’re sitting at a desk for nine hours, uh, as well, you’re just like, I don’t want to sit at a desk anymore. I know

Casey (18:31):
My hardest job. I worked at a moving company during college. Uh,

Vincent (18:35):
Yeah. Well, at least you didn’t have to get a gym membership.

Casey (18:39):
Uh, well, funny you say that I did. So I had, I would, I would work out. I just actually interviewed my, um, the current head coach for, uh, central Washington where I played. And I just, he asked me about that job too. And I said, so it’s like getting up at six at the warehouse by seven truck and load the truck, get there by eight. And I’m not talking like, so that the feeling you get when you move, I have to help a buddy move. It’s awful. It’s an imagine doing that every day, every day. And then imagine like an 18 Wheeler, you open up the back of the truck and just stuff’s falling on top of you, not fun. And then go work out at night, go work, and then spend time in the weight room, spend time trying to go find receivers to throw, catch the football. And it was not fun, but I don’t, I don’t, I wouldn’t change it for the world.

Vincent (19:28):
Yeah. I definitely, during the truck loading days, that definitely was my workout. I didn’t have the, didn’t have the diligence to go work out after, uh, after doing that. But, uh, there’s a, there’s a skill in loading a pallet and wrapping a pallet. And everybody’s, uh, most people, uh, end up learning that at some point in their life. Um, tell me about a time where you really screwed up. Tell me about a time where you failed in something, you know, what were, what was the situation like? What led up to that? What’d you take away from it?

Casey (20:01):
This is a small example of that might seem small, but it still haunts me to this day. Uh, early in my sales career, I was trying to be creative on getting in front of a customer. And I’m, I was working with this as a healthcare provider and we provided, uh, it consultants, technology consultants for them. And I was trying to meet with their, one of their, I worked with like a director and I was trying to get into this other director. Who’s I know use our services. I’m so passionate about it and how I worded the email. I went too fast, obviously I didn’t take time to really made sure it was really articulating what I wanted to say. And I was like, imagine if you were the customer, you’d be like, Hey, Vincent, we work with ABC person in, in this organization here. Here’s what we’re providing.

Casey (20:44):
I’d love to schedule time to meet with you. He took that as, because of my own mistake of writing. He took that as I was, I worked at inside this healthcare provider, like we were in colleagues or employees, I was like, Oh, no, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to sound like this. So I owned it. It was too late. He was so he thought I was doing it to be sneaky, um, on, you know, trying to, to get in the back door, be, uh, just by not being honest, which it just rocked me because I mean, integrity, my, my, how people. I like, I like knowing that people like me and I, I had a, I did a good job. And so, but this guy thought I was shady, unethical and was lying. And it was like just three jobs. And I vowed, never do that again.

Casey (21:29):
So as fast as I want to go, sometimes you have to slow down to go fast and making sure that, Hey, is this really what I want to look to want? You know, not to be like analysis paralysis, but like that mistake of, and he never met with me again and never talked to him again, Mike, his name’s Michael lawyer, if you’re out there, Michael, I apologize. I swear. I did not mean to do it, but I mean, again, I had a very successful career and at the, where I left and, but that’s, that mistake still haunts me. So thanks for bringing it back up. I appreciate.

Vincent (21:58):
Yeah. I mean, what, like what, uh, how did that change the way that you operated in the future?

Casey (22:06):
Uh, just slow down. It just, I had to slow down like emails that were really, really important. Uh, this is where I actually wrote about my book. I talked about. Sometimes I would take an email or something that was really important, and I would share it with somebody who doesn’t have as much experience as I did or someone who might not even like, for example, I, I took an email one time to one of our admins and I said, Hey, I’m about to send this to, to a customer. Can you take a look at it? Yeah. Now it wasn’t all just for show or per se. It was a lot of, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to give that my, my teammate a chance to be like, wow, Casey’s has some of my advice. And, but again, it’s spelled vulnerable enough just because he or she might not be doing what you’re doing. Maybe they’re going to learn something new or see something, do an outside perspective that might help me get better. And that mistake just forced me to, um, know that every customer I’m going after, that really means a lot to me. I just approached it like what, after your last customer. And I didn’t want to have the chance to lose it, lose that person. So I think that it lose the account, but

Vincent (23:03):
Yeah, it’s incredible that you bring that up in the solve is so simple. Just a second set of eyes and like, Casey, I know you’ve been a hiring manager throughout your career. I’m sure you’ve had the resume or, uh, you know, I struggle to say cover letter, but that, you know, the email with the resume attached where there’s just, there’s a little typo in there. And I’m curious all the time, how many companies, that individual job seeker has sent that to.

Casey (23:28):
Well, that, and so, um, one of the three hardest words in life for people to say, I think her, I don’t know, people don’t want to show their gaps. They don’t, they want to be perfect. They want, they don’t because their fear of, if my boss thinks I’m not good, one probably didn’t get fired. I stink, you know, asking for help is the best gift ever. And not only is it for you, but it’s for someone else, you’re allowing someone else to get better. Right. And so like to your point, think about, would you rather someone look at, look at this or now, do you want to be judged as God? This is the guy that, Oh yeah. Don’t, don’t hire Vincent. He’s got typos. He spelled his name wrong. Yeah. Right. I mean, think about the pain and asked you to sit in it and just visualize it. Is that really what you want? And the answer should obviously be no. So asking for help. I love asking for all, I still ask for a lot of time.

How to Get Over Your Fear of Asking For Help

Vincent (24:22):
It’s tough because when you ask for help, there’s, there’s two different sides of it that you’re mentioning. One side is admitting to yourself that you need the help and asking for it. And the second one is that you’re asking somebody else for their time and it could be easy to feel like you’re bothering them. Um, on the second one, if you feel like you’re bothering somebody, tell me a little bit more about what you mean in terms of it’s a gift for them as well.

Casey (24:50):
Well, I think it goes back to, you’re allowing, you’re allowing someone to talk about what they know. Right. And I think we have to get over. Like, for example, when I would first in my BizDev career, when I didn’t want to customer was telling me a technology word or a project that I knew nothing about, I have two choices. I can shake my head up and down, like, cause I want to be smart. I want to be respected. I want to, but I haven’t earned it yet. I can say, can we slow down on quick wins? Tell me more about what that means. I’m unfamiliar with it. And before you answer, don’t take my, um, my lack of knowledge on that subject. I thankfully I get to work for a team where I have a lot of people who have been at my company for years and they know a lot and I wish they were here to answer this question, but I don’t.

Casey (25:26):
So I’m hoping you can teach me more about that. Right? Again, being authentic, vulnerable, like we all start somewhere, right? You don’t have to be perfect. And if sometimes, if the customer expects you to be perfect, well maybe they’re not the right customer for you, but I mean, high percent of the time over 90%, I know because I can think of examples when I’d ask questions and so down people appreciate it. They appreciate because the not, you’re not just going go, go, go, go. You’re you, you truly care. You have, you want to have a vested interest in relationship. You want to have the best interest of what they’re trying to say. And it gives someone else a chance to make sure that what maybe is in the job description they really, really want to talk about or what they really, really want you to know more about. Um, and I think it just takes, again, back to your point earlier about asking great questions, sometimes rephrasing or asking something that you don’t know, you’re giving yourself a chance to ask more questions, which is going to again, leave a Mark of your level of listening. How my present in this moment right now, or am I just taking notes and spacing out and waiting, focusing on my next meal?

Tips to be Successful in Sales by Fostering Relationships

Vincent (26:26):
Yeah. One of the things Casey is, you know, as a, as a sales leaders is sales teams. Often times will track the percentage of time each person is talking in a sales conversation, just because if you’re talking 90% of the time, um, you’re not actually getting an opportunity to be able to ask those questions, but you’re also not allowing the other person to be able to talk. And job interviews are actually similar. If you’re, if the other person only says six sentences asks you six questions and they say nothing else in that conversation, chances are that it’s going to blend in with every other conversation that they’ve had. But if you can get the other person just talking a little bit, opening up about something, giving them an opportunity to talk about something that they’re proud of, or for them to be able to show off some knowledge that they’ve picked up or talk about their journey at a company. Um, it’s more than likely they’re gonna end up remembering that conversation a little bit better than all of the other conversations that they’re having.

Casey (27:23):
You just made me think of another story. Do you mind if I share one real quick? So I, uh, at the end of my career, we were me and two sales reps were going to meet with a large coffee retailer. And, uh, I did some research on LinkedIn and I found that this gentleman went to high school where my high school football coach left before he came to my high school. So I was like, and I knew that he was also connected to someone else. I know. So I was like, there’s my two softball like questions, but I knew I was gonna ask. And so we’re, we’re in the elevator and I leave, I leave the elevator and I go to this gentleman, I say, so you’re, you’re, you’re an old Ram. Right? He’s like what I said, you’re worried that was this mascot. He’s like, yeah.

Casey (28:01):
How’d, you know that I was like, well, my, my did you get coached by coach, coach Osborne? He’s like, yeah. How’d you know him? I said, well, he actually coached me when he left your guys’ high school. And I saw the, you graduated in 1992, which probably meant he was the senior year in his last year. You guys won the King bowl, which is state championship. Or he’s like, yeah, how’d, you know that. And then I said, do you do bench? No. This other guy’s name. Yeah. And I said, well, tell me about that life. How, how cool was that experience? The guy talked for like 20 minutes about high school memories playing football. And now we sit down. Now the two reps I brought, they don’t, they they’re almost like they’re oblivious. They’re not even there. And now that I don’t, I mean, I care, but I don’t care because who’s the customers talking.

Casey (28:40):
We get halfway into the meeting. I know we’re 20, 30 minutes in. And he, again, he told us he only had 30 minutes to me. Yeah. We’re now over. He’s like, man, I’m so sorry. How, how can I help you guys? What are you guys need to know? I’m like, well, you know, I want to make sure you have a chance to meet our two sales reps that are working with you. I’m just more serving as our executive sponsor. But you know, we’re excited to learn about you share with what we’re doing with, with, within your organization and real hope to uncover opportunities where we be able to compete to put our best foot forward. Oh yeah. The guy goes on to fallen right out. Like almost the entire org chart. You need to go talk to this person. You go talk to that person now.

Casey (29:12):
Was it lucky? Maybe? Was it all because of that football analogy, people may argue was the way I handled myself. Meaning I don’t know maybe, but the fact that I was prepared, I quickly had commonality, which created rapport, which gave him the trust to open up and share with me things that are going to help us. I didn’t walk in. Cause think about like that, that opening. And if you of your sales experience, we’re gonna use you talk to people. If you are, if you’re so uncomfortable and already talking what you do, the business, you do, what you sell on that. Walk from the elevator to the customer’s office. How awkward don’t be that person. Right. Use that time. That’s the, that’s the commonality. That’s the rapport type stuff. So I don’t know. It’s I haven’t told that story in a while and he and the Y is thought of it. But I think that lined wealth, what you just were saying,

Vincent (30:02):
And that really stands out is that some people, I mean, internet research now is pretty normal. Whether it’s a first date, whether it’s a job interview, I mean, everybody has these public personas out there. Some people are reluctant to bring any of that stuff up, even though everybody knows that everybody’s looking at that in the examples that you’re giving, you’re kind of just making it okay. To be able to do that. Like what advice would you give to somebody who says, well, I don’t want to bring that up. Cause then Casey will know that I looked at X, Y, and Z.

Casey (30:34):
Then I’d say if either gonna you’re either gonna do it or you’re gonna let your competitor go do it for you. You’re going to do it. Or you gonna let the other person’s going off the same job. Do it. You, you know what, what’s the worst that’s going to happen. Hey, the case, it was, the questions are out of line. Hey Vincent, I’m sorry. My apologies. I was just trying to get to know you own it to me. I think sometimes we, we try to be like the phrase, fake it till you make it is the worst advice ever. I mean, again, my personal opinion be yourself, right? Everyone else has already taken. So be yourself. Be comfortable in yourself, everyone. We all. And I don’t care for the CEO of Microsoft. Um, I’ve met the CEO of LinkedIn before I, um, Jeff Wiener, before he just stepped down.

Casey (31:17):
I met him at a LinkedIn networking conference, 16 of us in a room. I asked a couple of tough questions and put myself out there. He said, man, case, thanks for participation today. I mean, someone’s going to do these things. Why not? You? And so I just, I don’t know if it was, you know, all the adversity and things we’ve talked about through, through today, but I just, I don’t know. I think I just learned to train my mind that someone’s going to do it. Why not me? And, um, I think people appreciate the, the level of authenticity. Um, I’m realizing it’s something maybe I’m just blessed with, but I just, I feel like it’s teachable if you practice just like anything. Yeah. I just think about,

How to Have Success in Your Conversations and Improve Your Career

Vincent (32:01):
There’s so many things that we’ve talked about that the audience has listened to in this episode. People have more in common with each other than you might think. And so you will strike out on some of these, like I’m not the biggest sports fan in the world. And I’ve gathered from this conversation that you like sports, but there’s so many other things where, you know, if you don’t click on that one topic, you keep asking, you know, have questions. You’re going to find something that you also have in common with the other person that you’re going to be passionate about. Because at the end of the day, we’re all human person you’re talking to is living in the same world that you’re living in right now. And everybody has families and everybody has, uh, hobbies. And you know, some of those hobbies are pretty broad, but if you get somebody even talking about what they’re passionate about, you know, it’ll click, you, don’t click.

Casey (32:58):
I’m glad I love that. I love that. You said that that’s kind of why. Um, I started my podcast, which you’re going to be a guest on. I’m excited in the future is about, um, it’s called the quarterback dad cast. So whether you’re again, Michael Jordan, whether you’re Beethoven, whether you’re Satya, Nadella, what, I don’t care who you are. If you’re a father, we got something in common and you’re trying to raise kids. You’re trying to help teach, inspire, keep them out of jail, create great employees, create great husbands or wives, create great leaders. Like that’s what we have in common. So let’s, let’s find it. And so what’s cool about what you just said is, you know, the power of asking great questions. Like you seem like a guy that’s got your, your I’m just looking behind you. Like that piece of furniture is beautiful. Um, it almost looks like a Murphy bed, by the way, it is a

Vincent (33:46):
Murphy bed. It is. Yeah, there we

Casey (33:48):
Go. I love those things. Um, did you put it together?

Vincent (33:53):
I did not. I wish I wish that I could say that I did, but that one actually came from some Murphy bed website, which I feel like I gotta plug them now, but, uh, I bought a black Friday sale and it was, it was great, but you know, it takes up space and makes it way more functional than a guest bedroom.

Casey (34:14):
Yeah. But yeah, like mean, but again, I either choose like, w w why would it talk about this furniture in the background, but why not? Right. It got you to say something. Now, if you plug this Murphy bed, um, 30 to be like, Hey, thanks. Thanks Vince. Appreciate you doing that

Vincent (34:32):
Would do a quick Google search. Now think they literally, Oh, it was called the original Murphy bed company. There we go. Shout out. Yeah. Um, no, it makes a ton of sense. I mean, we’ve talked, we’ve talked about so many things in this, uh, conversation. So, uh, since you’re a sports guy, I’m going to throw out a sports quote, John wooden. Uh, so, uh, you know, I am a UCLA fan and he said, if you’re afraid to fail, you will never do the things that you’re capable of doing. And I think that really, when I think about the conversation that we’ve had today, when you call out, somebody’s going to do it. Why not? You it’s so true right now. They’re, you know, under normal times, there’s 250 people that apply for every single job that one person is going to get with everything that’s happening in the world right now, you know, those odds are even tougher. If the one person that takes the step and takes a chance, and that really does their research is going to relate, is going to reach out to somebody from their past to be able to get an introduction to a company. Those are going to be the people who are going to succeed right now. And, uh, I want to practice and practice. And I love that. You’re talking about it boils down to effort and practice is definitely part of that effort and your attitude, whether you think you’re going to be successful now.

Casey (35:59):
Yup. Yup. And, and guess what, so you went to school as an econ and you want to get an economics or you got in finance. And so your two choices are sit and keep applying 7,000 times, or like Vincent earlier. I love it. Pivoted. He took a 12 $50 an hour job doesn’t mean you have to stop doing it. Right. But pivot, stay, say relevant. Keep reading books, keep going to, um, networking events, whether it’s zoom. Obviously we can’t meet a lot right now, but there’s still probably zoom connections you can do. I met an executive coach recent and Paul Howery, this guy, stud coach, VP of HR, uh, passionate stuff. He’s writing on LinkedIn about belonging. I think he’s doing some unique stuff, but he’s during this COVID he, he had to go out and build decks. Think he really wanted to do that.

Casey (36:44):
No, but he’s really good at building decks. And he built one, all of a sudden, all the people in his neighborhood are like, dude, how did you do that? But he pivoted, right? And now he’s going back, thanks to some, you know, PPP loans that were able to keep them on his feet. So I love that. You said that, uh, I love that you recap that. I think hopefully it’s set that people are listening can take and put into action. And like I mentioned earlier, I think the best advice we all get in life, we’re looking for this magic, this looking for this, it’s gotta be an app for that. It’s really thick. The common sense things that we just don’t wanna do because they’re not sexy, but they’re the fundamentals. And they’re, they’re there for a purpose if we, if we, if we remember them.

Connect With Casey Jacox

Vincent (37:22):
Yeah. Well, Casey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode, excited to share your book with the audience. If you are a sales person, uh, this is definitely a must read. It’s called win the relationship, not the deal. Six common sense strategies to succeed in life and business. And if you’ve heard on this episode, even if you’re not a salesperson, many of these are directly transferable into your job search. So worth checking out as well. Casey, how can our listeners connect with you online?

Casey (37:49):
Yeah, thanks for asking him. Vincent. I think LinkedIn is a great way to connect. I’m very active on LinkedIn. Uh, it’s where I share content and I don’t, I don’t share like every day, cause I think sometimes I don’t want to be an overshare, but I want, I share once, uh, once things speak to me where I can hopefully tell a story, um, on Instagram, on Twitter, um, I have a, I have a Twitter for my personal and also have Twitter for my podcast, which is at the QB dot cast, which I think you’ll probably include in the show notes, but LinkedIn is a great way and you can always email me at Casey Casey, J

Vincent (38:17):
Awesome. Thanks again, Casey. Thank you so much for listening to the show this week. If this podcast was helpful to you, the best thing that you can do to support is please consider rating and reviewing the show on Apple podcasts. This helps us help more people just like you move towards the life that they visit our podcasts on Apple podcasts. Then score to the bottom, tap the rate with five stars and just leave a sentence or two about what you loved most about this episode. You can subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts, or you can write to I’m Vincent Phamvan, and you’ve been listening to How I Got Here. This podcast is brought to you by Vyten career coaching.

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